Socially rejected, isolated, anxious, angry, lonely, chronically online, and marginalized young men are turning to manosphere influencers for answers. They become radicalized and embrace toxic masculinity, which harms not just them but also the people around them. However, many guys become disillusioned with these ideas. They embrace greater self-awareness and begin to see the world with more nuance.
Young men took to an incredibly candid online thread to share how the manosphere initially seduced them, while others weighed in on the discussion with their insights about masculinity and misogyny. You’ll find their brutally honest thoughts below.
#1
I grew up in a fairly racist and conservative environment. Then around 18 I moved out of the house to study and spent a lot more time on my own than normal. Then my long term GF cheated on me and left me. I was angry and I took it out on everyone. It was easy to find a community of people who hated women as much as I did and painted it as some sort of virtue.
And then I made better friends, fell in love again and gained a new understanding of my place in the world. I don’t hate women anymore and don’t spend time in those spaces.
© Photo: BoerInDieWoestyn
To be clear: the issue is not masculinity in itself. Rather, the problem stems from stereotypical masculinity that, when taken to the extreme, results in toxic behavior, disrespect for other people, and worse emotional and mental health for everyone. Meanwhile, when young men feel that society tells them that ‘all’ masculinity is inherently toxic, they become more open to radicalization. The fact that guys are constantly exposed to manosphere-related content online exacerbates the issue.
Actual toxic masculinity (as opposed to healthy masculinity) revolves around men being pressured to dominate, be aggressive and violent, and win, control others, and attain power, status, financial wealth, and sexual success at any cost.
These men are often misogynistic, homophobic, and have a warped understanding of what men ‘should’ and ‘should not’ do. For example, toxic men are told to be tough and stoic and avoid showing weakness. They are pressured to never talk about their feelings, refuse to see a doctor or mental health specialist when they need to, and avoid household chores. What’s more, they are very sexually promiscuous while hypocritically criticizing women who behave the same way.
#2
I wouldn’t consider myself those things unless you consider anyone who isn’t a raging leftist a conservative or anyone who is against othering someone because of a perceived inequality a “MRA.” It really stems from years of being told that you’re bad because of something you have no control over. It’s the same reason people dive into any form of extremism.
We have a society that expects men to do what men traditionally do, but then we are disregarded or hated for it. We have rampant misandry. Our society demonizes men for liking masculine things. Our society demonizes straight men for their orientation. Our society demonizes men for being white, even if those white men are poor. When everything you are, that you have no choice over, is demonized and you are othered and told that your opinion doesn’t matter because of your gender, race, orientation, or religion, you start to become isolated. When you become isolated, you become vulnerable. When you become vulnerable, you become susceptible to extremism.
At the end of the day, most extremism (even light extremism) is caused by people looking to be accepted for who they are when they feel isolated from the world.
I also, as a dad, have witnessed society continuously demonize dads for being dads. When my daughter was a baby, we’d go out and about. There were rarely changing tables in men’s bathrooms. You were lucky if there was a family bathroom that wasn’t being occupied by someone who definitely could’ve gone into the gendered bathroom. I can’t tell you how many times some older woman would make a comment about how cute my daughter was and then immediately drop the comments about me “babysitting” or whatever like it made me so good. Men and dads are infantilized.
© Photo: jonnysledge
#3
I used to visit manosphere sites.
Why I did originally was because most of the media I was consuming was from women who were telling me that men are the problem, [get rid of] all men, all men are [criminals]. Being told that you are a villain is tough mentally. These were supposedly from feminists but they didn’t care about equality.
At the time I was struggling and wanted a place to accept that it was okay that I was struggling. (Struggling and being told that you have privilege and all of society is set up to help you, made me feel like a bigger failure).
However, the manosphere stuff also has many toxic talking points that essentially did the same thing. That all women are liars, will take advantage of you, etc.
I try to avoid both extremes and try to treat everyone equally and with respect.
© Photo: Listener-Learner
According to men’s health charity Movember, men and masculinity influencers are no longer niche or fringe. They are mainstream, discussing fitness, relationships, and financial success, all of which appeal to young men.
A whopping 63% of young men watch men and masculinity influencers. And even though 43% of this audience finds these influencers motivating, a significant number—27%—say they feel worthless.
“While primarily engaging with influencers for entertainment, many young men reported acting upon influencers advice. They described this content as entertaining, motivating and inspiring,” Movember writes. “Young men who watched these influencers were more likely to report worse mental health outcomes, a reduced willingness to make their mental health a priority, and a higher rate of risk-taking (such as steroid use or exercising while injured).”
#4
The Algorithm.
I’m afraid that is everybody’s objective answer, regardless of the subjective understanding of their own whims. They followed the bread crumbs put in front of their ego. It lured them under a bubble/sphere propped up by a stick. And then they yanked the stick away themselves once they experienced the sauna of validation prepared for them inside compared to the cold bitter reality outside (made to look colder still by the algorithm elevating extremist voices on the left).
© Photo: normalice0
#5
Men as a group are suffering. Men are not being offered any meaningful support by society to help alleviate that suffering.
One of my favourite quotes, ever, is from the Good Place. “People improve when they get external love and support. How can we hold it against them when they don’t?”
If you want men to get out of the manosphere, then you need a better system of external love and support for men, because at the moment the manosphere is one of the few things offering any meaningful support for men. It’s not good support. It’s toxic and often shockingly sexist, but it is support nonetheless. Men need better systems.
Things are improving though. The Shoulder to Shoulder community for instance in London is an absolute star of getting men together to help each other, to support each other with uniquely men’s issues. To help them develop as adults, the skills that fathers don’t often teach their sons in terms of taking care of their mental and emotional well being. How to build genuine bonds and connections and how to build a community that men seem to lack.
I cannot say enough good things about them.
© Photo: Potential-Bird-5826
#6
Being hurt by women. Over, and over, and over, and over. And having that pain belittled and denied even after I left the manosphere. I have autism and ADHD so I notice things others don’t, I’m socially awkward, and I have a hard time forgetting things like that.
Being subjected to “men are trash/dogs/useless/stupid/slow”, and ruder things, every time I went on social media, even when I’d block or report that content in an attempt to get it away from my algorithm.
Being [exploited] by a woman and then having people who call themselves feminists tell me that it doesn’t matter or it’s a different, lesser category of crime because I’m not female.
Being treated like my consent is implied. Hell, my bodily autonomy was violated hours after I took my first breath – I was subjected to an irreversible cosmetic surgery that I would not be capable of consenting to for almost two decades.
Adult women started commenting on my body when I was 6 years old, and people treated it like it was nothing. So I treated it like it was nothing… But now? I’m not sure.
When I was a kid, I was subject to “be a man, don’t cry, etc” literally from the moment I was able to understand those words until the moment I was large and imposing enough that the people doing it weren’t comfortable saying those things to my face anymore. That came from, in my experience, almost exclusively women. My entire value system was beaten out of me, and I still struggle with self worth.
When I became an adult, people stopped seeing me as something to be loved and cherished (a child) and began seeing me as a man, something to be avoided unless I can be used for something.
I turned to the manosphere because it was literally the only place that kid me felt that I could have value as a person, and it felt like the only place where I wasn’t being discriminated against. It was a coping mechanism. A trauma response.
But of course they were just using me and trying to turn me into a hateful person.
I escaped it because, throughout this time, I had good friends who were women, and the anti-woman rhetoric eventually just became too much for me.
I’m better now. I consider myself a feminist even though I hesitate to associate myself with the movement.
© Photo: SomeSugondeseGuy
There are no easy answers when it comes to tackling toxic masculinity. However, a few approaches that can help include:
- Launching marketing campaigns to change social and cultural norms revolving around masculinity
- Offering programs that positively integrate boys and men into society
- Educating parents on the importance of creating safe, nurturing environments, as well as teaching kids to regulate their emotions
- Identifying and treating psychological distress
- Promoting healthy relationships that are free of abuse and violence
- Teaching parents about the damage of subjecting their children to physical punishment and humiliation techniques
#7
I was 15 and videos of Andrew Tate saying funny & slightly agreeable [stuff] kept turning up on my TikTok.
LDel3:
Social media is a big part of it, they’re preying on young boys.
© Photo: More_Dirt5832
#8
I briefly read manosphere stuff because most messages I got to the contrary were “Yes all men. You are bad because you are a man. You are bad because of what color you are. Your father and grandfathers are even worse. We hate you.”
The manosphere said “We don’t hate you. We don’t think you’re bad.”
But it turned out they are hateful in other ways. So I haven’t read manosphere content in years.
© Photo: QuarterNote44
#9
When in high school I was extremely unpopular with the ladies and I had a very weak self esteem. I had a loathing for the world around me and wanted to find something to blame for my lot in life. I joined the army and matured a bit. Some time after I started realizing I needed to just take better care of myself and be someone worthy of love, attention, you name it. I still hold the belief that nobody cares about you and that keeps me from fully moving over to more left leaning ideologies, but im far removed from the blame the weak mindset I used to have.
In my adolescence i was angsty and hurt because of sexual and mental trauma. But as I got older I found that nobody cares, and at the end of the day I have to do something about myself if I want things to improve. The right wing pipeline gave me an outlet to blame others, specifically women in my case. But the only way for me to move past that was actual self improvement and therapy. Thankfully im past that point in my life but its an easy path to slip into so I feel for a lot of these guys.
© Photo: SlpWenUDie
What are your thoughts? This is a very sensitive topic, but if you want to share your thoughts and experiences, you are welcome to do so in the comments.
Have you ever embraced the beliefs shared by masculinity and manosphere influencers, or do you know someone who has gone down this road? Why did that happen? If you or your family or friends have become disillusioned by these movements, what made you change your mind?
From your perspective, how can society help young men develop a truly healthy relationship with masculinity while avoiding toxicity and radicalization? Let us know.
#10
A lot of it starts from feeling ignored in conversations about gender issues, like men’s mental health gets dismissed while everything focuses on women’s struggles.
© Photo: Lopsided-Table2457
#11
Okay, I’m just going to start with a disclaimer. Maybe I’m just too old for this but I don’t identify, nor agree with the whole manosphere definition. Nobody seems to even know what it is and throws the word around whenever it suits them.
I was asked to attend a University debate once about this topic and they wanted me to debate against the manosphere side. And I asked the organizers,’Can you tell me what the manosphere is?’. And they send me three portraits and say,”Yeah its what these bigots stand for”.
The three photos they sent me was Steve Irwin, Andrew Tate and Nelson Mandela.
Like…..😂😂😂😂😂😂I’d need to be on one hell of a trip to find a philosophy that those three people agree on. Safe to say, I turned down the request for the debate.
“Back in my day’, these terminologies didn’t exist and we didn’t form camps like this. You listened to some peoples’ advice, you stress tested it in the real world, and eventually you learnt the truth of what works and what’s [nonsense].
Plain and simply, in my experience, everything that came out of a feminist’s mouth was [nonsense] and made my life worse, while the advice offered by the alternate group, substantially improved my life. That’s very simply how I decided which beliefs to adopt.
© Photo: CosmicCreator_97
#12
I turned and looked but never stepped in that direction. I was educated enough to catch myself falling into the psychological pit.
From what I’ve seen, the majority of modern men are ostracized. This is due to many factors, and I’m not an expert, so here are ignorant observations.
The internet – being chronically online has stunted the social skills of young people, more so young men it seems. Do that for a couple generations and you have a group of young men with very little social skills. The internet has also trained humans to be more greedy. Back in the days, people married their neighbors or that kid they went to school with. Now that the world is so much smaller, everyone keeps looking for their true love from across the globe. People are so much pickier, especially women (more on this later).
Modern feminism – men has become the subject of evil in the current feminist conversations. Women don’t need men, men are pigs, etc. The truth is that most men need a woman. When they hear this rhetoric, they find it hard to reconcile their feelings with the modern rhetoric. They want someone to tell them that a woman needs a man too. And when people are already calling you evil, some say, “Might as well play the part.”
Modern dating – app/online dating has done the most damage. There are some truths to the “hoeflation” that has been popularized in that community. Basically, women have become much pickier due to ease of access to a pool of attractive men and also the overwhelming attention that they get. Honestly, if I was that popular on dating apps, I would be too. But what this creates is a lopsided dating culture where the majority of women will chase the top few attractive men because it seems like a viable option now. This leaves the majority of men talking to bots.
With all of this combined, you end up with a bitter group of people who have seemingly been ostracized and left behind by society. They are then susceptible to rhetoric that validates their loneliness and frustration. And instead of empathizing and trying to understand, society just goes, “ew”. At the end of the day, it’s just a lonely soul wanting to feel loved and needed. But we live in a society where men don’t have the emotional and social capacity to express those feelings, and women don’t have the capacity to empathize.
© Photo: GimmeNewAccount
#13
I’m not a red piller, but I get it. Imagine growing up in a poor household. You need to both work and study to get good grades. You take out a lot of loans, but you go to a state college where you still need to work. You get a degree and a decent-paying job. Then society dismisses your hard work and struggles and says you got there due to “privilege”.
Imagine hearing every day how men have it so easy and how women are the only ones who suffer or struggle. Imagine hearing every day that women are perpetually oppressed and you are perpetually the oppressor.
When someone says, “hey, men aren’t so bad.” you are going to be drawn to that.
© Photo: NJBarFly
#14
My beliefs started to shift slightly when I had children. My wife and I both worked. We are both college educated. We were struggling financially and our kids were basically being raised by other people. When I was doing the majority of child/house tasks, I found that my kids seemed to need a nurturing side that I wasn’t providing the way my wife did when she was doing those things. Don’t get me wrong, I think kids need masculine and feminine influences in their lives, just at different times/situations. Both of our careers were OK, but neither thriving. My wife had no desire to achieve at work and I was exhausted and putting in little effort at work.
After discussing it, she wanted to stay home with the kids. I was all for it too. My career took off as I had more energy to put into it. While our income was less, we became better off financially with less taxes and no daycare. She is happier. I am happier. The kids are doing better.
I do jot agree with extreme beliefs in the manosphere, but I have shifted more that direction. I’m all for feminism in terms of a person doing what is right for them. For me, I just don’t like the narrative that work outside the home is better than work inside the home. My wife works much harder than many that work outside the home and is more fulfilled/happy. She has talked about going back to work when the kids move out. If she does, I’ll support that. If she doesn’t, I’ll support that. I’m guessing it will depend on the grandkid situation when we get there.
I also get tired of all the equality talk about men and women. Women are much better at some things than men. Men are much better at some things than women. It is OK to acknowledge that. It doesn’t make one less than the other.
© Photo: rawldo
#15
I’m growing more conservative as I age. Or maybe the standards keep raising and I just stay the same.
It’s also much better when you literally go out to people and see how unhinged internet has become.
Right’ish things like Joe Rogan are sooo inclusive and tolerant to everybody. You can be a total crackpot, comedian, or respected scientist and there’s conversation there.
Leftist online environments have so many DNI and weaponizing virtue to rip apart each other over wrong thoughts and wordings. I never feel relaxed interacting with them, because smallest infraction is taken as bad faith argument.
© Photo: Mortarius
#16
I don’t visit manosphere sites, but I was considered a liberal until covid. Then all my fellow liberals suddenly started trusting big pharma, trusting the government had our best interests at heart, and quickly went away from supporting personal freedoms, and instead supported mandates. Vaccine mandates, mask mandates, curfew mandates, quarantine mandates, etc. Then they supported censoring free speech, because it was problematic. I was like what? Being a Liberal used to mean, you believe in personal autonomy, support free speech, support gay rights, womens rights, and shifted to wanting to give the government for control. It just became pro communism and socialism under the guise of morality.
I don’t consider myself conservative, more of a libertarian, but the conservatives don’t have all these moving goal posts all the times.
I do research into everything I have an opinion on, the Trans stuff, the vaccine mandates, and the pro censorship and mass illegal immigration was just illogical to the point that I disdained the side I used to be with. Now I think they’re even dumber than the conservatives. Which is crazy, since I voted for Obama.
Like others have said, a lot of men have been pushed out of places, especially college, and are told that they’re by default oppressors. Even worse if they’re white and straight or Christian. So who welcomes them? The conservatives.
Hell, even my sister says [stuff] all the time like “Men suck, but not you you’re one of the VERY few good ones.” Luckily I have an amazing wife who’s not caught up in all this cultist mentality.
© Photo: Fightlife45
#17
As others have said, the obvious reasons are because men are demonized with little nuance at all. There are objective facts about the suffering of men that is not only mens’ own faults, but it’s anthropomorphized as something done intentionally and maliciously, e.g., the “patriarchy”.
For me, what’s pushed me away from “feminism” and other progressive ideas, is in addition to the above, there *is zero accountability for women* in this system. There is no room for error. No room for imperfection in men, yet women are effectively “blameless” and perpetual “victims”.
My life is filled with women who are walking contradictions. Whatever “good” qualities they claim for themselves are entirely self-defining. Whatever “bad” qualities they ascribe to men is just as capricious.
© Photo: Obsidian743
#18
I dont indulge too much into it, but I’ll ask this:
How many times does a man that works for those he loves to have phrases like, “It’s a man’s world.” be rubbed into his face until he’s fed up?
Let’s face it, those who run the world would throw all of us, man or woman, to the wolves if needed.
The vast majority of men who built civilization, who broke their backs to do it, did it to feed their spouses and kids.
At the end of the day, we don’t want control over women. We want to feel like what we do matters and is appreciated.
© Photo: FishWeldHunt
#19
As a moderate who is constantly pushed away from the left the main issues that i feel draw people to these kinds of beliefs are:
Being blamed for everything, accused of everything, told your opinion doesn’t matter, and having your position misrepresented solely because of immutable characteristics
The inability to diverge at all in beliefs without being lumped in with the right makes you feel like you might as well.
Social friction from having to perform rituals you don’t understand or disagree with is exhausting.
The main reason i personally haven’t accepted the manosphere personally is because they take those legitimate issues to an absurd extreme. Being tired of performative inclusion leading to a black ariel is just as absurd as people being up in arms over whitewashing for example.
© Photo: severencir
#20
It’s honestly not too complicated. The algorithim, when I was young and dumb and first introduced to the internet, pushed some videos or posts that basically demonized men for existing. This was my first time being exposed to that sort of direct prejuidice really (well, being directed at me, at least), so it caught me off guard. Then it annoyed me, then it got me angry. I engaged with the posts more, arguing in comments, or liking posts that were critical of the others. That pushed me further onto that side of the internet, where I’d also come across the counter to all of that. It’d criticize the misandrist posts, and then essentially validate me and propose the idea that there wasn’t anything wrong with being a man, etc. After a while I eventually got exposed to more stuff, got older, and realized that both sides suck. So I kind of just tried to cut myself off entirely from that side of the internet, which worked.
Now I just try to be more pragmatic and logical about everything. I would say confidently I’m not into the “manosphere” anymore or whatever, though maybe in terms of, like, social beliefs or whatever, I could be called conservative. Either way it’s pretty obvious to me now that on either side it’s mostly just a cycle of hate begetting hate, at this point. Though I can’t really say I have as much patience or empathy or whatever as you do lol, since it’s genuinely agravting to see people my age or older still expressing these stupid takes and opinions when I know I grew up and evolved from all that already. That’s what’s the worst part about all of it to me. Not the opinions or whatever they express, but the fact that they have no excuse for being dumb, yet still are.
© Photo: Wi11y_Warm3r
#21
I had a friend who was embedding himself quite deeply in the “manosphere” scene. Liked podcasts like fresh and fit, watched videos from other influencers in a similar vein etc.
I put it down to: conservative family background, overbearing mother, a TERRIBLE relationship experience and difficulties finding someone because they lived and worked in a fairly isolated way. His real world experiences throughout his 20s were very limited. You can’t also discount his mental health difficulties and expectations put on by family, society or whatever about providing, being successful etc.
Finding his now fiancé has helped tremendously but he still struggles. What we do as a friendship group though is make a real effort to connect with each other, check in, allow each other to vent and offer support and understanding.
#22
Feminism has become a hate movement. Why would I choose a side that hates me?
#23
I didn’t, but I believe it has a lot to do with the normalized misandry we’ve seen lately.
“I hate men.”
“Men are garbage.”
“Men are useless.”
“Why do we need men?”
“Men are creeps!”
“Oh my god! HE LOOKED AT ME IN THE GYM!!!”
“You criticized my behavior? YOU HATE WOMEN!”
When a demographic feels under attack, it’s more likely to dig its heels in and exhibit its traits more openly as a form of defense.
Americans displayed more patriotism during WWII and the NYC attacks.
Asians banded together when it was Whites who were mostly beating them up during the pandemic, according to reported beatings.
African Americans expressed their culture and their West African roots more openly in the 1970s when they were granted civil rights after 345 years. One reason was there was a backlash from conservative Whites. It’s no coincidence huge Afros and Blaxploitation movies came in style.
Speaking of which, conservative Whites voted in a man who openly expressed their ideologies because they felt attacked since there was a Black president. Now they go around feeling like they can openly expressing racism and bigotry and sexism. Elon Musk did that salute **twice,** only retweets stories about Black crime but not White crime, and allows racist rhetoric because of “free speech.”
None of this is new.
#24
Not a single day goes by without me seeing a feminism post which can’t make its point without pre insulting disagreeing opinions with the usual insults.
#25
Likely, men are not suddenly turning to conservatism or the manosphere; rather, older dynamics are now being described using new language. Men have traditionally gathered in spaces to discuss shared frustrations regarding work, status, relationships, and societal expectations. In the past, these conversations might have taken place in pubs, union halls, sports clubs, or male-dominated workplaces. Today, those discussions simply occur online.
What people refer to as the manosphere is often just men talking about familiar issues such as relationship breakdowns, divorce, custody experiences, rejection, dating struggles, and feelings of economic or social displacement. There is also confusion surrounding changing gender roles. None of these themes is actually new. The primary difference is that the conversation now takes place openly on the internet, is amplified by algorithms, and often becomes politicized.
For many men, it’s not necessarily about consciously choosing a belief system. Instead, a common pattern is that they face some difficult life event, such as a breakup, divorce, rejection, isolation, or career struggles. In response, they start seeking out people who have had similar experiences. When they find communities that provide explanations or frameworks for what they have gone through, they tend to remain engaged.
It is also essential to recognize that for several generations now, family breakdowns have become exceedingly common. In some circles, this has even been presented as a progressive or liberating phenomenon. However, the long-term consequences for children and adults are often far more complex than this narrative suggests. Growing up in an environment characterised by instability, separation, and fractured family structures inevitably influences how individuals perceive relationships, trust, and commitment later in life.
No one is laughing now, as the children of this generation struggle with hostility towards those celebrated ideas.
Thus, the phenomenon itself is not entirely new; it is simply being discussed using contemporary political and internet terminology, which is heavily influenced by U.S. perspectives and may not be universally accepted.
#26
Because once I realized how most women are operating I started to study the actual things underneath it. I started with watching Karen Straughen when she was releasing new videos and saw that what she was saying was the truth.
The new commentators in the space spout a lot of BS but the problem is people ignore the part of their messages that’s the truth. By deeming them “bad or evil” you ignore everything including the parts that are true then wonder why people watch them to get the truth.
Opening-Ad-2769:
I was a hairstylist 20 years ago. And I can reaffirm your position here. The stuff I heard and witnessed opened my eyes wide lol. It made a lot of things clear to me that I had previously thought the opposite of when it came to women.
#27
What does feminism offer men?
At once you want quotas and organizations tasked with insuring women succeed and you want men to support that too even though it guarantees as many men fail.
If women succeed do they raise men up? Nope. Those men are losers and targets of discrimination from women.
And what is feminism really? You aren’t strong and independent. You are as dependent as ever. You whine and complain and blame and accuse until you get what you want. And what you always want is for MEN to make a place for you, make things safer for you, lower standards for you, provide you resources and do it at OUR own expense.
Feminism is just a new kind of patriarchal system that allows women to lobby the government directly for more privilege. Equality is just a word women use to get what they want. You don’t treat men with equality in your personal lives.
It has been wonderful for feminists feeding on taxpayer money with their “woman’s group”. It has been disastrous for the world, but as always, the problems of the world are all men’s fault and therefore our job to fix.
© Photo: geneticdeadender
#28
While I am not conservative and only partially agreeing with the general manosphere, I am against modern leftism. For the record, I consider myself a social/patriotic leftist, I only deny the “identity left”.
Left-wing don’t care for men and men’s issues and being ignored is actually the best we can count on. Sadly, they are often actively dismissive (“2 in 10 homeless people are women. What a tragedy!”) or degrading, accusing men of everything wrong in this world because of “patriarchy”, or only able to paint masculinity as problematic, fusing the words “toxic masculinity” into one.
There is also hypocrisy, leftists will usually declare how they bare for equality, but somehow ignore legal discrimination that men suffer amd women benefit – for example obligatory military conscription, or higher retirement age for men.
Sometimes there is also open hostility. A female MP from a leftist party in one of her parliament speech threatene to “bite through the necks” (literal expression after translating) of those, who complain about parental alienation (when after divorce one parent, typically a woman, will keep the child but refuse to follow the child’s meeting with the other parent, typically a man, against judge’s ruling).
I do agree it is sad, but the general manosphere is probably the largest group at least semi-caring about men’s issues.
Too bad r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/ is a small niche, because that’s the group I agree with the most.
#29
I was accused of SA. No court case, no enquiry. I was just simply looked at differently and she ran off to another country. So ya. Learned then that women can be extremely cruel.
Furthermore, I quite enjoy the truth. I’m a big fan of it. And they often talk about the hard truths. Not what we wished was the case, what simply is.
And ya I do agree that some manosphere guys are also gender warmongers. It’s not good. But to act as though women haven’t been on an absolute [campaign] against men, women be living in denial.
#30
I’m not in either of these groups but best I can tell any kind of male empowerment is frowned upon by the mainstream left. Men are oppressors, patriarchy, etc. They are pushing people into the arms of right wing commentators willing to give young men advice and tell them they aren’t all terrible monsters.
#31
I’m libertarian now but my turn came from the fact the right welcomed intellectual discovery whereas progs in control of the cultural institutions would seek to punish wrong think when I was just a young adult trying to understand the world.
Obviously this is circa early 2010, so it’s very different now. But a key reason is that I felt safer with them to learn than the ones on the other side who hated me for asking any questions to begin with.
© Photo: damegawatt
#32
Honest answer: I consider the “manosphere” real losers stuff, but if I have to choose between that and the nasty misandry…call me a real loser.
#33
I started turning conservative around 2015/2016, right around 18 years old. I would say I leaned more liberal up until that point, but I was also just a kid that didn’t think about politics much until then.
What turned me that direction is I felt the liberal side became filled with anti man and anti white rhetoric – their general brand of identity politics was just very off-putting to me, a white man. I associated stuff like the “me too” and “believe victims” with the liberal crowd because most of the support seemed to come from the left, and I thought it was crazy to support men being burned at the stake based on accusation alone.
Back then it felt like everyone was walking on egg shells to not say the wrong thing and I absolutely hated what the culture was pivoting towards. Then the president of USA came around and gave a middle finger to all of it, pissed off the crowd that I was upset with, and young me saw that and admired it and thus a Republican was born.
© Photo: Sa-Tiva
#34
Well, even though I’m not a conservative and don’t frequent any “manosphere” spaces on here, the main reason I was often recommended youtube content from the online young conservative or “red pill” spaces since around 2015 is because of how off-putting and unfair it feels to see online feminists’ behavior. They’ll often repeat the same easily debunked talking points from 15+ years ago about the “pink tax” or “wage gap” without looking into any potential non-sexist reasons for misleading population level statistics, as one small example.
Also, it’s easy to get labeled a “misogynist” for seemingly arbitrary reasons unrelated to the definition of misogyny, even when not directly talking about women lmao.
For example, as of today I can no longer comment or post in the Dating subreddit, which is the first time since I started using Reddit in 2018 that I’ve ever been restricted from any community here. Why did this happen, you ask? Because I gave a hypothetical set of plausible motivations for why specific men might have behaved the way they did, as a comment on a post where OP was complaining about her experiences. My comment didn’t say anything that I think is controversial, and didn’t criticize OP or women or even make any absolute assertions. But regardless, the snarky mod note claimed my comment had misogyny, and they also muted me so I couldn’t ask for clarification either. The rules for that subreddit (and many of the largest mainstream communities) are seemingly hostile to anything that isn’t blaming male behavior for 100% of issues with modern dating lol, any comment that doesn’t join in on the misandry is labeled as misogyny and removed, seemingly.
Sorry for the rant, but this just happened and is a microcosm of what experiences with online feminists in positions of censorship authority are like.
#35
Ironically college made me more conservative. Im a pretty rural dude who initially tried going to school for two years first in engineering, then the geological field. Both didn’t work out, as I’m not a good student, so I went to welding school after. In that time I saw what a more liberal culture looked like for the first time, but tried to hold an open mind to see if I could prove my dad who was an inner city cop for years wrong.
Pretty quickly I started to dislike the culture however. I found it hypocritical that the same folk protesting misogyny were mysandrists at the bar that night, or the same folk protesting racism were bigoted towards more rural minded folk, or the same folk who were protesting their perseved government overreach, wanted the government to enforce unconstitutional measures against others. In the end my dad was for the most part right about the city, college, and folks within. There’s flaws in his beliefs, dont get me wrong, and I’ve met enough people so far in my life to prove him partially wrong. But now I mostly go with the phrase of stereotypes are there for a reason, and am glad I can finally afford to move back away from the city.
#36
Honestly, I was sick and tired of always being blamed for Women’s problems.
I used to work for the federal government in Canada and the amount of anti-male propaganda officially sanctioned by my government is staggering.
Take any of the policies I speak of and simply swap the genders around and it would be seen as systemic oppression.
Canada is a joke. We’ve had full *legal* equality for over 25 years.
So I left when I retired. I live in a place where my pension allows me to live like a king and all I need is starlink.
#37
First of all, it’s great to see you out here getting genuinely curious and asking the opposition why they think what they think. There is way not enough of that happening, both sides need to be talking and discussing each other’s opposing beliefs instead of going in opposite directions and hating each other more. The gender war/divide is not turning out well for anyone and it’s time we all start turning it around like you are doing here.
For me personally, I got thoroughly sick and tired of mainstream thought (which is overwhelmingly feminist/liberal) telling men the wrong things and essentially outright lying to us about who we are and who we should be, how we should behave and how we should interact with ourselves and women alike.
Especially the mindset that masculinity is toxic and that we need to drastically change who we are (READ: become weak individuals who are incapable of standing up for their beliefs, enforcing respect where it’s due, using violence of any kind even if it’s to defend themselves or others) in order to be considered “human” and therefore then worthy enough to interact with women, who we should essentially let walk all over us and not expect anything in return. And oh, if we dare question a woman or hold her accountable for her bad behaviour or toxic beliefs, we are somehow misogynistic.
20+ years of this poison that has permeated its way throughout society in the form of television news, TV shows, politics and education has stripped a lot of men of their natural masculinity and therefore their backbone, to the point they are tip-toeing on eggshells around women because they’re afraid of being shamed or branded a misogynist for holding a woman accountable, or much less expecting mutual respect. It has brought about a kind of neo-chivalry, where men are taught to bow down to women simply because they are women who automatically deserve respect no matter what, while the same is not afforded to men.
This is the crux of the issue: the deep hypocrisy of modern feminist / liberal thought. “Rule for thee but not for me”. Feminism claims to fight for gender equality, but the so-called “equality” it fights for stops there. The very name “Feminism” gives it away perfectly; it’s only concern is for “female” and things of a “feminine” nature, there is no consideration for men beyond what feminism expects of us. This is a huge mistake because men play a massive part in the world, and to ignore their place in all of this will simply push them away which will not be productive to anyone.
When men first start seeing the light of the other side and waking up a little, depending on who they are it can cause a shock and send them to the extreme end of the spectrum, where they’re inspired to hate women simply for being women. Let me be very clear that this is deeply unhealthy and not good for anyone. Like any new discovery, adopting a new lens to view yourself and the world should be taken slowly to correctly assess its reasonableness and the extent to which you shall adopt it.
However, men jumping in the deep end of the Manosphere is especially exacerbated when we see feminists saying egregious, misandrist things like:
“What do we need men for? They are useless”
“All men are bad”
“Men are creepy”…
And then they wonder why men hate them. It’s pretty self explanatory, really. You can’t spew hate and vitriol at someone and foolishly expect them not to hate you; that never works out well.
#38
The feminist narrative became irrational and has frankly overstepped.
#39
I have been trying to date for 16 years, *trying* being the magic word. I got 0 dates, constant rejections(mostly tied to my height, secondly for being chubby), and 0 luck online after trying multiple apps for 5 years.
I started getting into psychology pretty early in order to improve my dating. I have also been in the gym for more than 7 years and have made a lot of progress. And, I went to therapy for 8 years. I also started getting into attractive hobbies like poetry, songwriting, dancing, and gardening.
After all of that…**I feel more miserable than ever**.
The gym gave me an eating disorder and body dysmorphia, while talking to girls became more and more painful with every rejection, no matter how good I was at hiding that. My depression and anxiety made me hate every possible hobby and pushed me towards developing BPD. My disgust for how much pressure and omportance people put on things like confidence, leanness, and height, is imeasurable.
All while I never mattered and always felt invisible. I tried to tell people how painful and deadly never being chosen, having no idea if you’re worth dating or you’re going to d*e alone feels like. The ones who always dismiss this are **women**.
“just love yourself and focus on your friendships” – not how male psychology or emotional and physical needs work. Even *self-love* is a social conditioning, you do not have the ability to love yourself if you don’t know how someone loving you looks life. And it still doesn’t compare to the feelings of another person.
Less than a year ago, my best friend, who struggled with dating and height too, took his own life because of it. That made me fall into a deep hatred for women’s dismissal of how much access to dating and relationships they have. I turned to the manosphere
A few months in though, I realized that the life based on conditional love and achievements that the manosphere presents with a nice bow on top is not at all what I want from a partner.
Real relationships and reddit success stories kinda pulled me out of that mindset, but it never fixed anything. I am just a hollow shell existing for the sake of seeing if dating is worth something anymore or not.
#40
Ive read all the manosphere stuff. I’ve read most of the foundational feminist authors. I’ve spent a lot of time observing how both philosophies, and a whole bunch of other, played out in social media. From each of these I’ve found a handful of ideas that seem objectively correct to me. I take those, and leave the rest behind. I’ve done the same with religions too. Political philosophies too.
What I’ve noticed about any of these movements is that the people most likely to embrace them fully are one’s that essentially tell them that the way they think about a particular thing, despite being considered deplorable by mainstream thought, is right, justified and that they are not wrong for feeling that way. In some cases their reason for embracing these philosophies is because the movement spares them the discomfort of accountability. The movement, in subtle ways, will tell them that, because of who they are, they cannot be wrong, should not feel shame, and are exempt from criticism. In one stroke they receive validation and justification for their choices in life and for feelings that, if they were committed to being a self-aware human being, they would know are simply not right.
Any philosophy that tells you a large group of people (all men, all women, all of a particular race, all of a particular political group) are bad, deplorable or less somehow are not only wrong, based on every known statistical means of measurement, but they turn their adherents into simple minded followers as they convince them that common sense, actual facts, and observable realities should be denied in favor of their rhetoric.
Every individual human being is utterly unique and equal in their intrinsic value as a person. Any philosophy that offers up carefully formulated reasons why its ok for you to devalue others, to fail to treat them with the basic respect everyone deserves (until proven otherwise through their choices), is poisonous to society and, if taken in as the core principals of a society would produce a societal caste in which inequality, based on things like gender, race, age etc. would manifest.
Read everything. Think carefully about what you’ve read. Decide, based on reason and your own sense of morality, which is correct or incorrect. As you build your personal philosophy, it builds you into an ethical, compassionate, and principled human being. But never forget – any philosophy that tells you that all men, all women, all whites, all blacks, all rich, all intelligent, all heterosexual, all gay people are deplorable for some reason, is a weak minded philosophy incapable of creating positive change or progress in society.
#41
I think men have been asked over the past 10-20 years to change completely how they think or act, and what they should accept.
To be fair, these things didn’t seem much, didn’t seem to affect us in our daily lives, so we accepted these things.
However, these things we were asked to change didn’t make our lives better; they made them worse, they didn’t make others think of men better; the misandry just increased against us hugely, and they made the world worse.
So, huge swathes of men decided, why bother?
So now, I don’t bother, I will treat and talk to women exactly as I would a man, I expect the same in work and outside work as I would for a man.
I won’t apologise for being a man, and wanting what a man wants and desires, because they are diferent than a woman’s wants and desires.
I won’t keep quiet about my feelings on a subject because it might offend a woman.
#42
I once flirted with things like MGTOW but I quickly got turned off when I realized… for men doing their own thing, they were awfully focused on their problems with women. I was at a phase in my life where I spent too much time online, isolated from my previous friend group, on dating sites where I was not getting much luck, and all the women around me save for my mother had been telling me men are garbage, men made them feel unsafe, men were not doing enough, all men are violent or rapists, and I just didn’t really want anything to do with people who thought of me as a danger or someone whose motives were always to hurt them or put them down. It was before the whole bear over men thing, but very reminiscent of the same feeling.
I wanted a place to shut up about gender dynamics and talk about cool [stuff] my old guy friends & I liked and I’d rarely found women to find interest in, such as sports, programming, videogames, woodworking, home repairs, rockets going to space… I wanted friends I could relate to. Community.
All I got was some whining about how they felt attacked by women. It got tiresome, I couldn’t get what I wanted from it, so I moved on to pour myself into work. At least I get paid for my efforts there.
Never understood the likes of Andrew Tate, it just seems like more of the whole hating the other gender dynamic. I wish we’d move past that, on all sides.
#43
When I was younger (early twenties), I followed the Red Pill stuff.
I was doing everything ‘right’, and still wasn’t having any success with women. I followed all the advice that women gave, I treated them how they *claimed* they wanted to be treated. I was clean, dressed well, etc. All of it. And still struggled to get phone numbers.
Then I started following the Red Pill stuff, taking a different approach. It worked. I started getting dates, and having sex.
I started treating women how they claimed they *didn’t* want to be treated. Using pickup artist techniques, basically the opposite of what women said. It worked.
That’s why I don’t trust women, and I can’t take the ‘concerns’ about the Man’O’Sphere seriously. None of it would exist if women were capable of honesty or integrity.
#44
Because the manosphere spoke to me in such a way that no one, or nothing, ever has.
By way of background, I am successful professionally and financially. I retired at the age of 55 and will never have to work another day in my life.
That said, I am skinny, ugly, and Level 1 autistic. I’ve always struggled to be accepted. Much more than becoming accomplished professionally, I had a real hard time disabusing myself of all the social conditioning that I had undergone. Both red pill praxeology, and some of what the manosphere has been saying, gave me a much greater understanding of how the world works, and what reality is like for millions of men out there aside from myself. I found out I wasn’t alone in my alienation from what I was told my life should look like, and what it actually is.
I should say that I think both red pill and manoshpere content has gone seriously off the rails, and it has gotten to the point where both of those things at this point are nothing more than influencers mining for clicks and likes. I no longer have any use for it, but I can say that I’m in a better place for having been exposed to it, and thinking about what fits my life and what doesn’t
#45
I am neither a conservative or of the manosphere. I hail from an older discipline—2000s era pick-up artist, so maybe you can find perspective in my journey because I believe my motivations stems from the same frustrations found in the modern manosphere movement today.
I was introduced to the concept of the Game by Neil Strauss and went down the early internet pipeline and learned from the breadth of knowledge from that era, even got really good at it. (mystery method, RSD, Jlaix etc.)
The idea that was most seductive to me came from the inefficacy of doing it the “right way”. Asking women what they want and trying to deliver on what they explicitly said, what main stream society told me to do, what Disney and Hollywood movies romanticized as the right way to do things. At the end of the day:
IT. DID. NOT. WORK.
Lonely and frustrated from following the script and getting no results forced me to look elsewhere for something that ACTUALLY worked.
Pick-up artists promised field-tested repeatable results using something akin to the scientific method to separate good advice from [nonsense].
Men would share techniques and other men would go out and to test the methods and in the field using the data to separate the keyboard jockey advice from the stuff that actually worked. The old saying was: “Field test everything. The field is king.”
I tried the PUA methods and after enough practice and study I saw tangible results. Really internalized not listening to what women say, but what they actually responded to. Using what worked and discarding everything else.
This was very difficult for me because I WANTED deeply for the romanticized blue pill ways to work. I was a hopeless romantic like that, but it got me nowhere.
However, using the techniques learned from PUA, I saw an un-paralleled amount of access to [intimacy] and female companionship of my choosing and everyone had a good time, myself and them. A mutual win-win. I learned abundance. I learned how to withstand social pressure. Taught how to be ethical in my seduction and always tried to leave them better than I found them.
The skills I learned from PUA paid incredible dividends, not only in my social life, but in my professional career. Allowing me to navigate that social strata to a succesful executive level career.
Today I am a retired PUA. Married, kids, fulfilling career. No desire to step out on my wife or have a midlife crisis because my 20s and early 30s was an all I could [sleep with] buffet with hundred of lays under my belt and more amazing stories that I couldn’t possibly remember them all.
I will always be grateful to the PUA community for the skills they taught me and the immense amount of value I got from learning those skills.
The red pill manosphere movement of today is derivative of the old PUA except most of the redpill guys are frauds. They don’t go out and practice the skills, they spout the maxims without any of the field experience to back it up.
Back in the day we exposed those folks as keyboard jockeys. Talking a big game about going out and scoring but when you tried to repeat their experiences (which were shared in play-by-play field reports), the results weren’t there and if you went out to sarge (old school term for practicing your skills at a club) with them, they often could not back up the bravado they fronted with.
Hope that perspective answers your question.
#46
I would argue that both the terms manosphere and feminism are too broad to be particularly useful in terms having a discussion. Either of those terms regularly gets used to refer to a huge variety of ideas and movements etc so you would have to further define what you mean by them in order for me to know what you’re saying.
Personally I am very much in favor of people’s right to choose for themselves how they want to live. Therefore I endorse things like LGBT rights and oppose things gender based legislation etc. Many feminists would consider me a feminist because of some opinions like that. However that is far from universal. For example trans exclusionary feminists are not particularly rare but are opposed by larger feminist movements. I also don’t really see feminism and conservatism as being diametrically opposed in all things. For example I would argue that some of the more widespread conservative perspectives on sexuality that I disagree with are also shared by many if not most feminists.
It really is much more convoluted that either side likes to pretend. Personally I prefer talking about specific ideas rather than broad generalities and terms like feminism or conservatism are not particularly useful for that. Telling me that you are a feminist or a conservative really is not giving me much information about what you believe.
#47
I’m an Orthodox Christian because it’s demonstrably sustainable in a world of a thousand rising and falling, in and out of vogue moral and ethical norms.
People believed what I believe 100 years ago. People will believe what I believe in 100 years from now.
I can’t say the same for other popular beliefs in modern society.
For all the liberation that’s come in the last 60 years, marriage and fertility rates are plummeting and are projected to continue to do so. I understand many think that’s no big deal, but the thing is these problems are mostly effecting secular society, with religious communities remaining relatively insulated.
Why is that important?
Well, I may have a great many ideas modern wider society may consider immoral or oppressive. But the reality is no-one will care how backwards people think my views are when secular people’s children or children’s children don’t exist to enforce the modern norms they think are important.
And ultimately, what good is a belief system which inevitably [ruins] itself through the freedom it brings?
#48
The realities of dating traditional women made me realize that the redpill relationship standards fit my needs better than the delusional takes on women that many on the left have.
#49
The Answer is pretty simple, men as a whole are shifting backwards, they watched being good get them continually treated like the bad guy, especially the white dudes, most of us just learned to keep our head down and avoid women at work for the most part. Men used to have lots of spaces they didn’t need to worry about being pc or offending someone, so they could vent.
They stopped venting because it was toxic, they stopped joking about those inside thoughts. Slowly they stopped talking at all. I used to believe well this is just it, then I left the United states for 8 years and figured it out. Its specifically American Women driving this, This is the reaction to their actions and them remember a time when these things didn’t happen, they hear about it from their fathers and grandfathers.
Now they are all keeping to themselves, waiting for someone with a like mind for a partner. God I got lucky and met a wonderful woman, or odds are I would be right there with those [people], I had given up on dating it was terrible, every date felt like a job interview. So what started driving men there, There in that space they are celebrated for simply being or trying to be a good man, Others spaces are hostile. Which would you pick?
#50
Not into the whole “manosphere” thing but in general it’s easier blame others for our own failures and lack of success. If you don’t get a job, it’s not because you’re less qualified it’s because “they hired a DEI person.” If someone breaks up with you, it’s not because YOU did something it’s them.
Then, along come grifters who tell men “they” (some other group then the manosphere guys themselves) “took it away from you and are preventing you from succeeding” and they get rich from peddling this [nonsense].
It’s a lot easier to sit in your parents’ house and rage post on social media all day than to study, get an entry level job and work your way up. Or learn to socialize and network with others who will help you. Or talk to someone you want to date instead of waiting for them to pick you from an app. Or become financially literate and learn how to make and invest money.
I mentor about a dozen interns every summer and have helped a lot of them find jobs after they graduate. Very few white guys even bother to APPLY for the internships.
#51
The hypocrisy and double standards I witnessed on the left. It turned me into a cynic.
#52
I was raised in a religiously conservative household, and I chose to keep those beliefs. I’m aware of the manosphere and viewed some of their content, but it seems to be just a mirror image of what I dislike about feminism. Conservativism and the manosphere are not the same, and I don’t even know if they’re compatible since it seems like the outcome the manosphere wants (especially MGTOW — Men Going Their Own Way) is something we haven’t ever had historically and something that isn’t realistically sustainable for society of the species (again, just a mirror image of the 4B movement). The only reason I think the Manosphere is currently aligned with the right in the USA’s politics is because the winner-take-all election cycle makes for strange alliances that are more about having a common enemy than any actual kinship.
With respect to gender relations, I consider myself an egalitarian: I want equal rights for both genders and think the issues of both genders ought to be addressed together, especially as they are often intertwined. I know that puts me at odds with some conservatives, and I know that some feminists would consider this the feminist position. But that has not been my experience with feminism. My first exposure to feminism was in middle school when a teacher invited the class to debate on whether boys were better than girls, or girls were better than boys, or if both alike were equal. All of the self-proclaimed feminists in the class argued openly, passionately, and very loudly for female supremacy, and not one joined me in arguing for equality. While its true that first impressions can be deceptive and that children can hardly be expected to fully understand the ideology they claim to uphold, in my case, I’ve found the impression was fairly accurate. With few exceptions, I’ve found that most feminists I’ve interacted with are among the most hateful and sexist people I’ve ever met. I grew up among conservatives, and the first person I met who ever openly denigrated entire groups of people based on race and gender was a feminist I met in college. I also had a feminist professor at the time, whose field of study was in diversity and sensitivity toward minority groups. She handed out a reading assignment whose main point was to teach that all men everywhere without exception (even the virgins) were incurably evil rapists. When I challenged this conclusion, she and the other feminists in the class reaffirmed that it was true. I have seen more hate put out by feminists than by almost any other group, with the manosphere being a close second and espousing rhetoric that is essentially just toxic feminism with a gender flip.
My rejection of the feminist label isn’t purely emotional or experiential, though. While there are some feminists who seem truly egalitarian and with whom I completely agree, they seem to be the outliers who are often rejected by their own movement. The majority philosophy seems to be one of gender-based Marxism: crafting a conspiracy theory wherein all of history can be summed up as a conflict between an evil oppressor class and a virtuous oppressed class, where true understanding and dialogue between them is impossible, and the only solution is the eventual subjugation or elimination of the oppressed class. In particular, it is a system where only the oppressed class can truly have problems, where the oppressors can only suffer if it is self-inflicted through their own oppression, or else a just result of an uprising of the oppressed—a system where the very notion of taking the suffering and problems of both groups equally is unthinkable and traitorous. This line of thinking has not worked out well and has caused considerable harm in economics, and I don’t see it working out any better when the bourgeoise are replaced with men and the proletariat is replaced with women. Actual history and real social problems are considerably more complex and require much more nuanced, collaborative, and humane responses than “destroy the patriarchy” and “kill all men.” Most feminists don’t seem to agree with that, in my experience, and those that I’ve found who do seem to be targeted as traitors by other feminists, so I don’t consider myself a feminist.
#53
Social media—and echo chamber algorithms–have amplified and normalized misandry and misogyny.
Are there men out there who treat women badly? Yes.
Are there women who do the same to men? Also yes.
The danger is that you have younger generations growing up entirely (and seeing the world through) social media. They are consuming content that isn’t always accurate, factual, or representative of the real world.
For example: If a young girl views content about a young man who sexually harassed a woman, engages with that content, they will continue to see similar content. If the man was tried and convicted, he should 100% be held accountable for his actions. But that one engagement now rewires this girl’s algorithm to see similar content.
As a young girl, if you see this content with every swipe, your worldview will be molded by thoughts of, “wow, bad men are everywhere,” or “wow, all men are trash.”
And when this girl goes out into the world, and experiences this first-hand by one or more bad actors, her worldview is now validated.
Bad actors, in general, represent a small percentage of what’s actually happening. But they get more visibility and exposure, so people think it’s happening more often.
Honestly, I think this is a young generation problem. Most people over a certain age don’t care what men/women do with their lives. They have other issues to worry about.
But I feel for kids growing up today. Girls thinking men are horrible. And boys thinking women are out to get them. Everyone thinking what they see is real. Everything is distorted, and we are now raising a generation of humans who lack critical thinking skills because AI.
I’m going to sound like an old man, but the solution is to get off social media.
#54
My first girlfriend at 16 would repeatedly put our relationship on hold, and verbally let me know it’s so she can go try other guys, and I’d take her back after because obviously stupid 16 year old and I had been under the assumption women can’t really do anything wrong. Ended up doing a ton of damage to my self esteem and mental health.
So naturally when the MGTOW guys started popping up around 2016-2017… I was an easy mark. Even wrote a college paper all about MGTOW my freshmen year because I thought it’d piss off my colored hair professor. She gave me a 90 plus score and ended up being one of my favorite professors lmao. Either way it took me years after to snap out of all the [nonsense].
#55
Conservatism: The Democrat party was the one that pushed me out. I was a long time Democrat supporter, but I am also the type of person who likes asking questions when something doesn’t make sense to me and refuse to jump on board if I don’t get an answer or not a good enough one. That attitude put me at odds with the Democrat Party despite it being applauded when it was aimed at Republican beliefs. I consider myself an independent or nonpartisan instead of choosing a party nowadays.
The difference between the two is the type of feedback I get regarding the disagreements. I can have a friendly conversation and debate with most Republican supporters despite disagreeing with most of their beliefs while the opposite can be said about Democrat supporters despite me agreeing with more of their beliefs compared to Republicans. As I grew into my 30’s, my beliefs have gotten more and more conservative because some of my long standing economic and social beliefs became more unaccepted by Democrats while accepted by conservatives.
Manosphere: I started off liking it because they pointed out a lot of ignored issues dealing with male emotional struggles, the affects of anti male movements, and unrealistic expectations in dating. Eventually, it started to turn me away when they started putting women down the same way the feminist movement put down men. Although, I still feel man-hating feminist are still more extreme considering some of them went on a mission to destroy male only spaces while they get to keep and grow their feminist spaces and entertainment through the support of the Democrat party.
Boys and young men are more affected by this. For example:
Boy Scouts of America changed their name to ‘Scouting America’ to show they are now including girls while Girl Scouts of America remained a girls only program that made it clear they are only for a single sex (female). Boys do not have an equivalent of that anymore (youth sports program has a different purpose).
Male targeted entertainment has also been on the chopping block while feminist targeted entertainment forced its way into those very spaces with its own version. So I completely understand why the manosphere exist and not going to say everything they talk about in an invalid. Just wish those with caveman opinions would not associate themselves with it because they are louder than the more valid issues.
#56
I do sympathise with those like Andrew Tate but my situation is different from them. I admit I’m ugly (3/10 looks) and have the personality of drying paint (I’m autistic and Chinese) but I don’t blame women for my virginity.
I know I could spend a lot of time, effort and money improving myself to make me more attractive to women.
Because I am quite nerdy, introverted and shy I don’t get the opportunity to interact with women that much. Also I went to an all boys school which didn’t help. I also admit I’m quite insecure in myself.
Because of my disability the majority of women avoid me like the plague. But I habour no hard feelings towards them as that’s just the way it is.
Even though most women treat me like they’ve stepped in dog [feces] I don’t want to hurt them nor treat them the same way as they treat me. Women don’t owe me anything even though I’ve never kissed a girl.
#57
I am old (Xennial) but had kind of an early preview of what boys are going through now; grew up in a very feminist environment (big blue city, private school, then college and grad school) and basically figured there was no way to express interest in a woman that didn’t constitute harassment. So I didn’t.
Then I finally started dating (in my late twenties!) and found, after reading a few redpill blogs, that what I had to do was all the old male stuff I had been brought up to regard as sexist. Make the first move, plan the date, lean in for the kiss. Or they tell you there’s no chemistry.
It’s very hard to argue with empirical (lived) experience.
Some time after that MeToo hit, and after that I realized I would always be the enemy to feminists.
#58
For what amount i have, is due in great part to the extreme left ultra woke culture hating on white men. To put it simply.
#59
Because those are the only communities that even pretend to care about men’s problems.
Everywhere else it’s either complete disinterest or active hostility when men try to bring up their problems.
#60
Feminist ideas – now there is a loaded term. In the western world, in this day and age, if you think that term is close to, or will be perceived by most men as close to egalitarian or humanism, you’re way off base. If you don’t want to come off as very biased towards you own gender, you’re better off voicing those ideas specifically.
As far as politically, I haven’t moved that far “right” from my left of centre spot in my youth. What has moved a hell of a lot more is much of the political left and their beliefs, priorities, and rhetoric.
#61
I grew up in a house full of women exposed to their casual discussion of men in general. This exposure together with seeing how they treated the men in their lives led me to greater conservatism. They appeared to seek not equality but dominance.
#62
A lot of topics that men discuss are ones women think are plain stupid.
Also something changed with the way women act. I say this as a gay guy, who got tired of being picked at for my personality, hobbies/habits, and having some women show their open disgust at my gay behavior. Straight men somehow started off as my bullies in high school, and then in my 30s are the easiest relationships for me to have outside of other gay guys. So I just appreciate being in male exclusive spaces because I can just exist. No anxiety, gossiping, or stirring the pot.
#63
I had to Google manosphere to know what it meant. But it seems like the natural reaction to how toxic the feminist movement was becoming.
And I don’t really think you “choose” your belief system. It’s something innate in you, and the definitions come from other people.
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